Real Estate Professional forum is the place for positive industry interaction and welcomes your professional and informed opinion.

Key development in TREB tribunal hearing

Notify me of new replies via email
Real Estate Professional | 10 Apr 2015, 09:52 AM Agree 0
Agents hoping for a speedy resolution to the Toronto Real Estate Board’s tribunal hearing with Canada’s Competition Bureau may have just had those hopes dashed.
  • Randy | 10 Apr 2015, 12:05 PM Agree 0
    I do agree. The Board should stand up for the Rights of Realtor. We are paying a lot of Money to the Real estate organizations. If they want to give the public these access then they should not charge any fees to Real Estate Brokers and Salespersons while at the same time not have us be licensed along with bi-annually commitment to get CE credits. We should not pay for these if the public is not paying. They should get the public licensed and registered and have them take the Real estate course and do the CE every 2 years just like RE agents. Then we will all be on the same page. That will make the Real Estate Boards and Associations RICHER because it seems to me that they are only doing this to make money.
  • Pat | 10 Apr 2015, 12:16 PM Agree 0
    The Registered Sale Price is alreay available if the public want to pay for it through Geowarehouse Teranet or Mpac. So, why doesn't Toronto Real Estate Board just charge any person who wants to access 1 sale on a Pay-Per-Use. The person could be charged $5 dollars to get the information on just 1 sale. If they want to access 10 sales, the cost would be $50 dollars. This way, the Toronto Real Estate Board would benefit monetarily, and the Real Estate Sales Persons would not feel that the information is being given away for free. Let's get real, if someone wants to know how much a property traded for, there are numerous ways to find out anyways. PAY PER USE or SEARCH would benefit everyone.
  • Cally | 10 Apr 2015, 12:22 PM Agree 0
    The Competition Bureau will never agree to protect the perceived "rights" of Realtors. In their view, we are not members of the "public" they are charged to protect. Unfortunately, they do not embrace the concept that the financial information of all Canadians should be kept private -- including the sale price of any asset whether real estate or other investments, bank accounts, personal tax information, capital gains from the sale of stocks, etc. We have to stop squabbling about the impact on our marketing, and understand and argue that we are simply the first line of defense in keeping the financial information of all Canadians regarding real estate private.
  • B | 10 Apr 2015, 12:44 PM Agree 0
    The sales information of the Real Estate Board is private intellectual property.

    The Competition Bureau or government cannot compel them to make it public.

    There is already public information made available by the government via the Land Registry.

    The Supreme Court is idiotic for not hearing a property rights case like this. If they are not willing to stand up for property or contract rights, then they are nothing but a sham.
  • B | 10 Apr 2015, 12:44 PM Agree 0
    The sales information of the Real Estate Board is private intellectual property.

    The Competition Bureau or government cannot compel them to make it public.

    There is already public information made available by the government via the Land Registry.

    The Supreme Court is idiotic for not hearing a property rights case like this. If they are not willing to stand up for property or contract rights, then they are nothing but a sham.
  • Alister MacLean CCIM. | 10 Apr 2015, 01:06 PM Agree 0
    Why print a second article quoting the same individual who naively wants to make public- private real estate sales data? Why hasn't REP been reporting more about the merits of data protection?
    With my property owner hat on, I would not want my personal real estate sales information publicly broadcast to all en-sundry without my express written consent on how that data could be used.
    I believe it would be highly irresponsible to publicly expose this sensitive information to just anyone, which could make it very easy for professional criminals to extract all or parts of the information and data for their own fraudulent advantage & intent!
    This private & highly sensitive information should not be exposed to global eyes, like a bank statement found blowing down the street! Surely our personal information regarding our homes and the value we have in them, should be safeguarded against possible criminal abuse and exploitation, especially when other sensitive information such as our race, religion and even our phone numbers are considered private domain, and where legislation in the "Do-not-Call list" rigidly protects citizens from far less of a threat.
    Those plotting to expose the data must have a short term gain plan in mind and, certainly do not have the interests of the publics personal privacy at heart. I understand why some people might find it nice to have access to look up what their neighbour sold for, but this should not be at the expense of our personal security, otherwise what else will be forced into the prying public eye! You might as well leave your car unlocked, your house door open and your wallet at the front gate for anyone to rummage through!
  • Peter Barbati | 10 Apr 2015, 04:14 PM Agree 0
    It seems, upon examination of the Bureau's logic (or lack of) that they are basing their fight on what is and is not possible within the current rules. Qausi-Government and Government departments are very good at writing rules that will favour their own interests and then pointing a finger at those that choose not to play their game. If this continues, the boards will pay a hefty dollar amount to Lawyers (which comes from our dues) and will still loose. TREB and other boards own the info. Bureau says they have to give it away for free. So, perhaps TREB and other boards should simply give ownership of the data to the Realtors as a group? Then, the bureau would have to compel each Realtor to give away his or her information away. Not likely going to happen and the Bureau will be buried under an avalanche of papers. Give the information ownership rights to those that do the work and we can collectively tell the competition bureau to piss off.
  • | 10 Apr 2015, 05:06 PM Agree 0
    Well the Fed's get the price of the GM shares they sold privet and they are our fffen shares
  • More Agents | 10 Apr 2015, 06:07 PM Agree 0
    If realtors weren't so greedy consumers wouldn't be MAking COMMISSION WARS!!! Funny realtors love making bidding wars..

    Homes inflated not value or service of realtors...wage inflation for the majority of Canada has gone no where and some went down. The monopoly of realtors and their fees is destroying their industry..greed is the culprit..easy money...60,000 agents paying their fees to pay the lawyers to fight for the few realtors who make all the money...90 % of the other agents should start speaking up all their fees pay for the monopoly for the the few... Why didn't legal fees go up ,staging,pictures..they all stayed the same ..
  • Wilf | 10 Apr 2015, 07:47 PM Agree 0
    TREB is located in Ontario.
    Ontario LAW, namely the Real Estate and Business Brokers Act 2002 governs the real estate profession in Ontario
    All real estate agents have to be registered with the Real Estate Commission of Ontario in order to practice.
    RECO is charged with administrating the Act.
    Per this LAW of the Province of Ontario no registrant can advertise the sold price of a property without WRITTEN permission from BOTH the Buyer and the Seller. That is the law, in addition to privacy considerations.
    So if a registrant posts sold numbers on their website, and a complaint is filed with RECO, hefty fines will ensue against the registrant and their brokerage, as this is a clear violation of the Act.
    Once a real estate transaction is complete, anyone can drive over to the Land Registry Office and for a small fee get all the information they want on a property, including whose name(s) are on title, sales, legal description, and any liens against the property.
    It's not just privacy law here.
  • George | 10 Apr 2015, 09:28 PM Agree 0
    After 30 years paying for the accumulation and process of the data... they wish to take / steal my info... bugger that... I would rather it be destroyed.. let them pay to access municipal records with all the errors and start over... If I were running a convenience store.. I should hand out all the food from my store...for free... in the name of .... wait for it .... consumer competition... crap.. level the playing field burn our data..let them eat cake!
  • moet | 11 Apr 2015, 03:17 AM Agree 0
    I am trying to buy a car. Would prefer to buy used. I wish I could find someone that would guide me through the process. I would be willing to pay $1,000.00 on a $20,000 purchase. That is 5%. However, that service does not exist.
    Car buying is definitely a fisbo market. Whether the owner is a car dealership, or individual. The buyer is on their own.

    Anyone is allowed to buy real estate the same way. Buy new from a builder,or used from a fisbo,

    Their other choice is to use a realtor.
    they can hire, not just a Realtor, but a system that they have developed, and paid for over many years.
    In the old old days, there were no listings... you only got paid if you brought in the buyer.
    Through our organized real estate we do try to create protections for our buyers, and sellers. We are accountable.
    I have been in this industry for decades, and i have seen many discounters. But they never last very long. They can work, to a degree in a good market, counting on volume, but usually disappear in a slow market, often leaving their realtors losing commissions earned. We, our boards are here for the long run, and should not have to accommodate "new come likelies" We are an independent organization, and possible made a huge mistake in creating a semi governmental board. It is time to call our organization back. Use Area, our local boards. Quit funding RECA, let the public file their complaints with them if the government decides to keep funding them.

    Allowing anyone to post a listing on our system, diminishes what we have been trying to create.
    I worked on the Tax Assessment Review board in my city. when they realized people could use their information, they changed the access to their information. Our boards are required to to make our information public by giving sales info to our civic communties, They are not obligated to give that information out. The onus of giving the information out should be the city, or county. They can charge.

    Am I allowed to give a sales figure as a realtor? Yes. do I have to answer to anyone? Yes. The government should not ask us to give out information that if they decided to ... they could give out themselves.
  • GREEDY | 11 Apr 2015, 10:15 AM Agree 0
    Nobody is debating you should make money it is how much related to the service,value provided!!! Look at those senators they self minister their perks,wages,laws ,rules and that sure looks fair!!! Competitiion bureau will help with ur have been making ur own rules and you got GREEDY(should have lowered the commission structure as prices sky rocketed)!!! Remember it is not rocket science you are providing it is lawyers and fees that are fighting it. . Plus, remember you wouldn't exist without consumers!!! Real Estate world could exist without YOU!!!!!

    Realtor Look up comaprables,taxi, tour..Pay ME!!

    Rocket do the math

    Also, if you didn't license so many agents you could make the same amount money EXCEPT ..Drum more!!! Sell more homes at a reduced rate and the magic of ecomomics make the same!!

    Swallow ur little ego and acting like you invented the wheel..
  • Rolling my eyes | 11 Apr 2015, 03:56 PM Agree 0
    You really don't know what the role of a real estate agent is, do you? Besides, what are you whining about? Are you not in a position to sell your home in any way you choose? Oh yeah...yes you are.
  • GREEDY 10% | 12 Apr 2015, 10:34 AM Agree 0
    I Know the role of the agent :
    1. look up comparabales
    2. Taxi service
    3. Tour Service
    4. Get payed

    And I have said that is worth 1000-2,000 and that is being generous!! Homes inflated that is why ur profit went up and you have done nothing different in 40 yrs!! Why haven't lawyers,stagers,picture takers,advertisers,assistants,mortgage brokers why haven't their costs sky rocketed??? 10% of Realtors have been totally greedy and they are destroying their model and the 90% of the other agents who pay their fees too support that greed...COMMISSION WARS!!! THis will help the other 90% and the greedy 10 % will have to work harder like the LAWYERS,PICTURE TAKERS,STAGERS,MORTAGE BROKERS,ADVERTISERS,assistants do everyday!!!!
  • 3 Decades a Realtor | 12 Apr 2015, 03:38 PM Agree 0
    Dear Mr Greedy! It is obvious your understanding of Real Estate is limited !
    Agents spend their days preparing Information for Buyers & Sellers, advertising listings, neighbourhood campaigning, arranging appointments with buyers other agents and Sellers , organizing home inspections, preparing valuations, advising on market strategy, , advising on how to price and position property to be competitive and educating clients in market trends, verifying listing data with local authorities, preparing website listing information, home staging advice, photographing, measuring the property, putting up signs, guiding both buyers and sellers from avoiding costly pitfalls, Qualifying buyers, following up on showings, holding open houses, reporting back to sellers, preparing Offers, installing appropriate conditions in offers & counter offers, protecting Sellers and Buyers & explaining Money Laundering, terrorist financing and possible fraudulent actions in the real estate market, collecting deposits, providing insurance for deposit funds, holding deposits in trust, circulating documents to all involved in the transaction and their respective lawyers, assisting buyers to find financing, insurance, home inspectors, contractors, outlining information on location of school districts, churches, hospitals etc, and still working evenings, weekends and holidays and generally assisting and guiding both client and customers through the process of chain reliant sales transactions. These are but just a few of the things we provide to our clients and customers as well, as your limited list.
    Even after we provide all the best advice and tools for the Buyer or Seller there is no guarantee of getting a pay cheque at the end of it! Ultimately always at the mercy of the Buyer and Sellers ability to complete the offer or transaction! Our fees have always been negotiable and they always will be, you have multiple options Mr Greedy - so why complain?
    I suggest you could get your License, by taking the mandatory real estate courses and then complete the articling courses in Law, Appraisal or mortgage financing. Once you have those under your belt go out into the world and compete, go ahead and charge the $1000 to $2000 you think you are worth, and then do all the work that people expect and see how long you last! I don't have time to write more as I must leave for an offer appointment! Good Luck and bye bye!

  • | 12 Apr 2015, 05:42 PM Agree 0
    It's been said above but worth repeating. Sales data is already available to the general public for a fee. Why don't these FSBO companies simply pay the Land Registry fees and get the data they want? Realtors have to pay for it through our board. What's the problem? Oh, it's too expensive and their business model doesn't work? Where's my mini violin? You want the data? Pay for it.
  • | 12 Apr 2015, 09:11 PM Agree 0
    I think this goes beyond the competition bureau as their argument for anti - competitive is nonsense. I think its the federal government wanting to know the consumers private information for Tax purposes and Tax evasion.
    As far as the history goes with the CREA, TREB & all the other boards V the Competition Bureau across the country, we as members should of taken Bureau to task when they wanted FSBO etc............ on the MLS data. Once you give them the taste of blood , they ( the Bureau ) will always come for more rectoric. Let this be a lesson for those board Directors & members, who with the local boards and CREA who caved in last time. Shame on you !!
    Jeff, Calgary
  • Commission Wars | 13 Apr 2015, 08:46 AM Agree 0
    Now we have conspiracies!! Realtors acting like they are legal minds now on what the Bureau is fighting for. The few greedy ones are ruining it for the the majority . Home prices went up not the service/value of the other industry fees sky rocketed!!! Lawyers should be making 10,000 per Real estate transaction, stagers should be earning 5,000 a hour,picture takers should make 2,000 a picture etc..they have a monopoly of COMPARABLES and that is it!!! Realtors don't have crystal Balls..

    There are 60,000 agents and they need too eat and consumers are looking for value and keep their money for themselves. They want efficiency for a realistic rate!! Sure, the ego agents are acting like they invented the wheel but their greed is bringing out all this attention from the Bureau and their own colleagues with 1000-2,000 transaction costs!!

    Condos are 4 walls,windows,doors and a status Certificate!!! What else could a realtor tell you?? This building is guaranteed for life!!?? THis is the best one?

    Detached/Semi they are selling themselves with economics 101!!! No supply...only thing agents have added were bidding wars to distort the market...THANK YOU!!!
  • CP Thunder Bay | 13 Apr 2015, 12:22 PM Agree 0
    I wonder whether the insurance Industry would allow unfettered free access to their database that they've compiled and you certainly don't see the competition bureau knocking on their door. After all insurance is mandatory in most cases and using the services of a realtor is not. As a consumer you have all sorts of options and choices available that you didn't have years ago and nobody is stopping you to sell your house privately or buy a house privately and all the sales data is in fact available to you via the registry system all you have to do is pay for it. The other option is that you could set up an organization and fund a database yourself like realtors did! With the big push for privacy I find it kind of laughable that they are arguing this sales data availability to death because as a consumer I would like to have access to the heating and hydro bills of any house I would consider purchasing however I think I could have more success seeking out a national secret so why are the data bases for utility costs not available to Joe Q Public? when it comes down to privacy it all boils down to the age old problem of you can't suck and blow at the same time.
  • Barb | 13 Apr 2015, 04:30 PM Agree 0
    If the public wants selling prices on ALL properties, not just MLS, all they have to do is go on Geo warehouse and pay for it. The public have access to this information when they are disputing their MPAC assessment.
  • 1000-2000 per transaction | 14 Apr 2015, 08:38 AM Agree 0
    The realtor Model is broken and that is why you are seeing their own industry offering flat rates, competition bureau knocking away, consumers doing most of their own research, Home Prices went up not the service /value of the realtor...especially these days most consumers are doing a lot work before online making the job of the realtor more of a administrator,tour service and less relevant

    The realtor does offer some value but not more than 1000-2000 per transaction. The same rate as a lawyer,accountant

    More Agents!!!
  • 3 Decades a Realtor | 14 Apr 2015, 11:04 AM Agree 0
    I think your argument has been addressed and demolished numerous times here, you are repeatedly showing that you are a bitter individual with with a chip on your shoulder with nothing better to do or contribute!
    Since you have so much time on your hands, you really should pay your money & take the mandatory government real estate training courses and then complete the mandatory articling courses either in Law, Appraisal or mortgage financing. If you pass - go out into the world and compete, charge your $1000 to $2000 fee that you believe you are worth, and then pay your marketing costs, and all your mandatory fees & insurances to protect the public, & still do all the government mandatory required agency work that people expect and deserve from their agent.
    However - with your negative attitude I can't imagine if any Seller would ever want to hire you, except perhaps another negative individual much like your own cloned self. Oh & since real estate fees are negotiable you should also be able to do it for less! Touche'- End of story!
  • Ur Fairy tale is over | 14 Apr 2015, 11:32 AM Agree 0
    I hope u weren't serious about those courses that take 3 months,multiple choice exams and barley need a high school diploma for?
    I am trying to save ur industry from the invetiable which is self administering real estate transactions. You should be happy ur collegues are offering flatrate services etc because you will have a job later.
  • Hypocrites | 14 Apr 2015, 01:38 PM Agree 0
    Realtors love bidding wars,mortgage wars, lawyer wars but soon as you mention commission wars....they have a pickle..
  • Interesting ... | 17 Apr 2015, 01:04 PM Agree 0
    Dearest "Greedy" and "Commission Wars", (...probably the same person!)

    Ohhhhhhhhhh how you spend your days and nights trolling through these articles and getting a rise out of the Realtors! ...(or trying anyways!) Engaging them in this great wisdom of yours!

    I'm not sure if you consistently fail at everything you do?... Or, are just generally angry at the world?... Or, you may have tried getting your license and failed miserably? ...but c'mon, seriously!

    And, before you come up with a smart-a** remark! Let me fill-in the blanks for you! ... Yes! I was a Realtor for 2.5 years! Then decided to get out because it wasn't for me and I frankly couldn't handle the hours and work load! I'd rather use their services for my investments and concentrate on making money that way!

    ...your turn! Cause we know it's coming!...hahaha

  • Tour Guide | 17 Apr 2015, 06:59 PM Agree 0
    So surprised you have the time to be so witty

    stick to the topic of reality realtor!!! I hope u don't talk serious about ur skills of tour guide,taxi and crystal balling

    look up those comparables to set ur weekend tours,taxi service..focus..pic up those suits from the cleaners, wax the taxi,

    Wish someone would actually defend their tour service with something that is a argument!!!

    All you ever hear is the same old replies. the same old sales seminar without realtors the world of real estate would not last...

  • | 22 Apr 2015, 01:29 PM Agree 0
    I agree this is private info and public has no right to it, just as they have no right to our incomes bank accounts etc etc etc...
Post a reply