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Agents react to cease and desist order from TREB

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Real Estate Professional | 09 Sep 2016, 08:15 AM Agree 0
Following the suspension of one agent’s sold data information portal, agents are having their say
  • SMALL PRINT clauses | 09 Sep 2016, 11:29 AM Agree 0
    Can someone answer how the treb/realtors get permission to use the data in the first place? Is there a clause in listing or purchase agreements home owners sign?? If thetre is a clause hidden somewhere I have never heard agent point this out... by signing over ur sale price and we can do as we want with ur info???? In this case than it should be open to the public and THE United states allows it !! so why so sacred here..i would guess realtors don't have enough credibility or skill .. they say they spent millions ..ALL THE DATA was formed by outrageous fees they charged sellers and confused how they said they paid for it../ HOME OWNERS INFO WHICH THEY PAID OUTRAGEOUS FEES to create the data
  • Rob | 09 Sep 2016, 11:41 AM Agree 0
    Guess when you sell anything you post what you got on facebook.
  • A real working Realtor | 09 Sep 2016, 11:56 AM Agree 0
    He doesn't do any real volume of business, so it's not like he is a threat to the rest of the board members. That still does not excuse creating a business model in violation of our rules. If you don't like the rule, try to get it changed, but it remains in effect until then.
  • Mark Ranger | 09 Sep 2016, 12:07 PM Agree 1
    Go to a car dealership and ask for comparable sales data that proves the value of the car you are considering buying is that which the dealership says it's worth. See how far you get with that one. Sure you can access online resources like or Kelly Black or Blue book but then the dealership always seems to have a comeback like "Oh that is just a rough guide" etc. That's because a Car Salesman works for the dealership NOT you. A REALTOR® works for YOU.

    As agents we use that sold data in the preparation of a CMA (Current Market Analysis) for our clients. We have the tools to be able to assemble and put that raw data together, in a form that makes sense to our clients, that will provide them the information that they can make confident decisions. The information is obtained and retained for that purpose - to help educate our clients. We check emotion at the door and bring logic to the table so to speak. Statistics are like a bikini; they show you what is interesting but typically conceal that which is important.

    You're curious to know what your neighbours house sold for? Go ask your local tax authority. You want to know what your house is worth? Contact a good agent referred to you by a trusted friend.
  • Data Permission from Owners | 09 Sep 2016, 12:22 PM Agree 0
    Analysis!! hope Park Ranger was just kidding??? please tell me there is more to selling a house and collecting 20,000-50000 plus!

    Surgeons don't even make that kind of money and think they have a little more skill....

    still no one says how owners sign over or give permission to let the info be taken, used,??
  • Diane Parker | 09 Sep 2016, 12:47 PM Agree 0
    There is always going to be controversy when those of us that feel the rules are only for others and not them. I am not supporting the release of the data for all the reasons realtors have given above, however, of most concern to me is data is data and unless you have your finger on the pulse interpretation can and will cause confusion. Not all data is in the system and a full-time realtor can work with past data and what is happening in the market. I can honestly say that I personally have saved thousands of dollars for buyers and have maximized dollars to the sellers by being a professional for many years and knowing how to interpret data we realtors share and I might add the knowledge that other realtors offer when asked is of great value when they are specializing in specific areas. When this company was told cease and they complied just long enough to come back on stream believe they should get a large fine and suspension. We have rules for all the right reasons and have been protecting the public for a long time. Arm chair realtors are not what we need in this industry.
  • Matt | 09 Sep 2016, 02:09 PM Agree 1
    @Mark, Diane - both of you are absolutely correct. Ignore the guy that uses the user name field to write something he thinks is witty..."tour guides", "taxi", "door opener", "data permission from owners"...
    One guy that trolls these comment sections saying the same thing over and over. And if he replies to me, it won't be to defend himself, but to try and criticize me.
  • | 09 Sep 2016, 03:09 PM Agree 0
    Data Permission from Owners | 09 Sep 2016, 12:22 PM
    And, it seems, my autobody guy charges more than my dentist who is way more skilled (I hope), but everybody complains about what dentists make. Go figure. Get your license, eek out a living for five years (if you can last that long) and then tell me what is and what isn't.
  • | 09 Sep 2016, 03:11 PM Agree 0
    Some agents actually discount their fees... and so they should. ;-)
  • | 09 Sep 2016, 03:43 PM Agree 0
    I've been licenced for almost 10 years now. So you're saying that I'm qualified to tell you what is and what isn't?
  • D.Ritchie | 09 Sep 2016, 03:46 PM Agree 0
    Can someone clarify what is the misuse of data? Is it publishing on a website, telling home owners what their neighbours home sold for? or giving a potential seller/buyer the recent activity in the area?
  • DAta scavengers | 09 Sep 2016, 06:32 PM Agree 0
    matt u even look like someone for the 80's...locked in the dinasour era
  • Francine | 09 Sep 2016, 07:06 PM Agree 0
    The data that a real estate agent/broker shares with the home owner and with the real estate board is the combined ownership of the homeowner and the broker. Realtor's use this data on a confidential basis to help homeowners determine the value of their home. The ownership of that data is therefore critical to the realtor's professional status level. Unfortunately often the general public do not understand how how much work is put in to the collection of this data and the maintenance of the database, and feel that it should be "free". Imagine if the public had to survey their own neighbourhoods by knocking on each door to find relevant sales data to be able to make an intelligent decision about their home's value or the value of a home they might be purchasing. This would be a lot of work wouldn't it ? But this is, in effect, what realtor's are doing everyday, along with the onerous process of getting the homes sold. And they are paying for an association/board that is helping them manage and maintain that data so they can deliver smooth and professional service to their clients. Realtor's should not take the privilege of using this shared database lightly. The license of this individual should be taken away for repeated offenses. He is essentially "stealing" valued rights to a quality asset, owned by his fellow realtors.
  • Matt | 09 Sep 2016, 07:33 PM Agree 0
    @Francine - That's a very good way of putting it. Thing is, this whole argument has been hashed out in such detail, with our side (REALTOR'S protecting clients best interests) giving numerous reasons why the Competition Bureau is out of line, and proponents on the other side consist of desperate agents who need to give away the farm to sell the cow, or dumbasses like the troll we have in the forum here who can't form a consistent or logical thought, let alone engage in constructive debate.

    @troll (that'll be easier than trying to use one of your many phrases, and you'll always know who I'm talking to), your response to me is that I look like "someone for the 80's"? What does that even mean? That I'm old? Well, no...I'm still part of the youngest demographic of Realtors. That I'm resistant to change? No again...during the time I served on the board of directors, I pushed for several changes and advancements. So...just random insults because you can't come up with any responses to the questions I've posed you? Yeah, I thought so.
  • living in the 80's | 10 Sep 2016, 09:41 AM Agree 0
    as usual no one has pointed out the hidden clause and realtors do not tell sellers or buyers about the clause ..the sales price will be trebs possession and do as they please?

    I would assume realtors /treb must have something in contract that says u are giving us permission to use the sale price? ...probably have some other clause says other models can not get the info from land registry and publish the info...or some law prevents it..

    THe monopoly that is hidden in the listing agreements or Aof PS???
  • Matt | 11 Sep 2016, 09:39 PM Agree 1
    You, no doubt, are referring to the clause "use and distribution of information". Of course it is explained during the listing process, just like every other clause in the contract. Any reputable realtor would tell you the same thing.
    It also states that the seller consents to using such information ONLY if it is an MLS listing.

    Once again, you're wrong. You're a genuinely amazing person. Most people would get sick of being wrong so many times!
  • | 12 Sep 2016, 10:43 AM Agree 0
    OK, 80's, let's look at it this way. I could give you a spec sheet on a new car. You look at the features listed. You see a leather seat. Your car has a leather seat. You see a radio dial. Your car has a radio dial. You see a seatbelt. Your car has a seat belt. So based on your knowledge, your car and the spec car are of the same value. Except the spec car in a Lambourgini and yours is a chevette. And it takes time and experience and training to see both the big differences and the more subtle differences.

    That being said, there is an old saying that no one is more dangerous than the guy who doesn't know what he doesn't know. You are free to buy and sell without a realtor, but those who trust us to do what we do know that we may use their sales data in the future to help price other homes. They DO NOT agree to us handing out their sales info to whomever wants it.....
  • grasping for survival | 12 Sep 2016, 08:08 PM Agree 0
    please stop ur grasping, justifying ur ridiculous fees for a service that you don't even a need a high school diploma to do...monopolizing the sales data which I am sure consumers don't really understand that u are monopolizing the info with a clause that lets u do what u please with the SACRED >>>data that u say is SO SACRED until it benefits u and u hand it out like CANDY....the consumers should have the right to the data just like u are...I am sure if consumers understood u are monopolizing the info ...u would see them question ...80's are over for model of charging those riicuolous fees to be atour guide, door opener, taxi and form filler outer..

    using the lure of easy money for more realtors to sign up,pay their dues, fees so u can hire more lawyers to hold on ridiculous ,over charging fees.

    sure in some parts of the country where average home prices are 150,000 and they can't sell iwould pay `1500 for Listing and 2000 for a sale

    GTA should be less because 5th grader could do it here with no supply and so many buyers...
  • | 12 Sep 2016, 08:54 PM Agree 0
    Not grasping. Some of make a good living because we do good work. When you have a business based on referrals from past clients, and they are HAPPY to call in for the second or third purchase, we are obviously doing something right. If you want to broadcast what your home sells for, be my guest. Not everyone wants to do that. And those buyers and sellers have a right to expect that privacy. I work in a balanced market. And I have no complaints about the fees I charge. Go do whatever you want, and let other members of the public do the same. I'm not God over what everyone wants and neither are you.
  • Matt | 12 Sep 2016, 09:25 PM Agree 1
    @Tour Guides - this incessant whining has gone on long enough. Respond with your phone number, or an email address, and you and I can have a rational can even come out and visit me, I'll show you what it's really like.

    Now I don't suspect you'll take me up on that, because none of us here take you seriously.
  • astro physicist wannabe | 13 Sep 2016, 09:13 AM Agree 0
    Show me what u do?? Sorry, do not have to see how u look up comparables ,taxi, tour, shoot for a comparable or over previous sale??? please Surgeon, astro physicist, nuclear scientist think u showing me will not enlighten me..f

    Think time for u to be realalistic and see ur a salesman with a monopoly of info, stop embarrassing urself and trying to justify ur outrageous u see no top realtors ar eon here ..they know they have a good thing to make easy cash

    seen many realtors complaning about land transfer tax ! 1-2% that money is is half distrubted for everyone...ur outrageous ( 4-6% triple of land transfer, we know who gouging)) fees pay for ur taxi, suits, and more lawyers to fight monopoly....of course competition bureau shouldn't be fair to general public..because I am sure there are services that have changed for ur favour that u complained about all day long..
  • Matt | 13 Sep 2016, 03:01 PM Agree 0
    It's crazy easy to predict your reactions now, lol. As for the "no top Realtors here", I've consistently rated in the top 10% in my area for the past 9 years. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't see failing agents commenting the way those here have.

    Anyways, I've responded and proven every single one of your tantrums wrong over the course of several comment sections, even offered an in person conversation, but if you want to continue with your broken record, there's no sense in feeding you anything else.

    How does being wrong every time feel? I wonder...
  • 5th grader | 14 Sep 2016, 09:43 AM Agree 0
    ur a salesman and ur job is to squeeze all the commission u can ...I am glad ur clients like to pay u for a job that a 5th grader could do.

    Fill out some forms that are set -up like a multiple choice questionnaire

    look up comparables on Monoplized data system that is HIDDEN hidden clause

    gas up the taxi

    open a few doors
    shoot for the comparable u looked up

    5th grader in a sellers market with no supply....

    top 10 matt on here justifying /debating ..priceless
  • LisaP | 14 Sep 2016, 10:45 AM Agree 0
    Although I loath giving trolls any attention, I will entertain you with the following: In Ontario, Paragraph 10 and Paragraph 11 of the most up to date listings agreements, residential and commercial respectively, are quite comprehensive and deal in great detail with the retention and dissemination of property information, including sale data, on TREB. All sellers agree to data share upon signing of the listing agreement. Does this satisfy your objection to Realtors using information they have obtained permission for using, and paying for the information's organisation and maintenance through hefty board dues? I agree with a previous poster. If the sold data is to become public, then the public should pay for its collection, maintenance and interpretation. Our dues pay for this now. If the public wants access to the information we pay for, perhaps they should pay membership fees as well.
  • greg | 16 Sep 2016, 01:58 PM Agree 0
    if the information is available from Land Titles for free - all he is doing is using technology to make that easier to retrieve... no issue in my books. TREB is living in the dark ages - you can't stop technology.
  • Mary | 16 Sep 2016, 02:15 PM Agree 0
    Greg, it's not for free. You can find it in the registry office, but you have to pay a fee for each search you do. l
  • GOOD FAITH | 17 Sep 2016, 09:26 AM Agree 0
    read a article today saying exactly what i say...doens't matter what the sales person or sales office says..only what is written in contract and ONLY UR LAWYER is ethical to protect u not sales /sales sales are not obligated to act in good faith according to SUPREME COURT OF why do we pay so much commission and lawyer so ilttle in a real estate transaction.... we pay for tour guides, taxi, door openers, form filler outers, look up comparables on the MONOPLIZED DATA they took from buyers with some hidden lase...

  • SACRED DATA | 17 Sep 2016, 09:34 AM Agree 0
    public pays for the data with ur outrageous commssions and I am sure if the public knew u are mooplizing their data with some clause which I am sure is never pointed out or why ur collecting....WE TAKE UR DATA AND MONOPLIZE THE INFO FOR OUR BENEFIT AND HAND IT oUT LIKE CANDY IF BENEFITS US....we talk like it is sacred if public wants it ....

    No wonder the compettion bureau is hounding...THEY TAKE OUR DATA WITH SOME CLAUSE, monopolize he info, cry it is sacred...hand out to anyone who may be a client
  • PennyPincher | 24 Feb 2017, 12:47 PM Agree 0
    If TREB is so worried about my privacy they why don't they prevent any agents not directly associated with my sale/purchase of a home from seeing the $ figures. Moreover, why not get the laws changed so that my neighbour can't go to the Land Titles office and get that info? The very fact that this information is available to everyone via the Land Titles office makes it PUBLIC. TREB is full of (rhymes with trap and starts with a C) siting their concerns over my privacy. They merely want to create a arena whereby they maintain a monopoly and control the amount of FIBOs (the dirtiest word in Real Estate.)
  • bearer of good news | 14 Sep 2017, 02:19 PM Agree 0
    So wait... I can just visit my local tax agency and get that publicly available information, but if I access that information through a difference source... it's a breach of privacy? Hypocrisy much? The data is either publicly available, or it's not. There is no middle ground. Either REBs cede tight control of the information, or they must succumb to being regulated by a 3rd party that will do that for them. You can't have it both ways.

    If it's publicly available at the land titles office, there should be NO difference if it's publicly available elsewhere.

    The comparison with the sale of a car is laughable. A vehicle is not a fixed asset that property tax is paid on. Real estate is regulated because shelter is considered a basic human need.... which is why information related to obtaining shelter is publicly accessible. Not to mention that land, ultimately, belongs to all citizens... and has special rules, which is why government can use existing laws to expropriate land ( at fair value ) to build infrastructure for the common good.
  • Bearer of good news | 14 Sep 2017, 02:22 PM Agree 0
    But it's still publicly available. If someone wanted to release the data and not charge for it, it's their loss. I'm sure there would be those that would pay for the RAW data, if it was made available. Maybe this money could even be used to offset commissions, use the money to pay agents a salary, while reducing commissions. Alternate revenue streams. Win-win-win!
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