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Competition ruling ignites agent reaction

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Real Estate Professional | 04 May 2015, 10:41 AM Agree 0
Agents are cheering a Competition Bureau decision that throws up a wall between private sellers and the MLS, but they’re nervously awaiting another ruling with even broader implications
  • Ian Hocking, Broker | 04 May 2015, 11:45 AM Agree 0
    Whether or not a Seller wishes to display their phone number to the world really is the Sellers choice, however, under the rules of agency, when you sign a listing agreement the Brokerage is the one advertising and as importantly is the one responsible for the accuracy of that listing, a fact that seems somewhat lost on many! Even if you are one of the alternative model brokerages, the brokerage is still the one advertising and the one that has the right to "Co-operate" using the MLS. There should be a step that requests information so the Seller's info is not right out there, so well done. I totally agree with not having the Sellers name on the listing.
    To speak to your second point of the release of 'sold data'. I am totally at a loss to understand why this is even up for discussion. Sold data is private, until the trade closes and then its available for any member of the public to go down to the local registry office and look it up for a fee of about $8. If there is a suggestion that sold data be released prior to a close of a transaction that cannot be allowed. What if a trade doesn't close? You just told the world where a deal was struck. Not to mention the numerous breaches of the Real Estate Act and PIPEDA. Agents are presently not supposed to even have sold listings identifiable by any means on their websites (I know many do, but that is totally against REBBA). The reason agents have access to the data is because we pay for it ! If a member of the public wishes to obtain sold data, get off your horse, go down to the registry office, pay the $8 and look it up. Or, alternatively, spend 6 months or so at real estate school, pay the $3,000 a year approx that it costs to be an agent and get your own license. Either that or blow it wide open, breach the privacy act and stop charging agents for access via their board dues. I don't usually respond to many of these articles but this one is ridiculous. Before anyone comments that I am just blowing smoke, I close around 80 deals a year and I don't display sold data anywhere on a website or provide it over the phone to all and sundry that may call for it. My suggestion, get better at what you do, create a solid value proposition and stop relying on this sort of idea to try and gain a listing.
  • Barbara | 04 May 2015, 11:59 AM Agree 0
    Placing a private home sale on MLS is like allowing private car for sale on a Chrysler lot. I don't understand why that option was ever considered.
  • Commission Wars | 04 May 2015, 12:00 PM Agree 0
    Ego Ian,

    The consumers pay for the data with the overcharging of commissions. You know the model of realtors is broken when their fighting with themselves!!!! 80-90 % of the agents barley sell enough to eat but pay to guard the 10-20 % ego agent . Time for the 80-90 % make changes because at this rate they will starve when the few gate keepers want to protect their monopoly.
  • Nick Nader | 04 May 2015, 01:18 PM Agree 0
    Completely agree with Ian. I am fed up with paying all these dues and others could benefit from the same info at No Cost.
  • just saying... | 04 May 2015, 01:19 PM Agree 0
    If the consumers want to have access to the sold data they should pay for it. TREB should charge $7.99 for each property report. I wonder how many consumers would actually pay for that info.
  • Tour Service | 04 May 2015, 01:27 PM Agree 0
    You should call google, yahoo that sharing all the stock info online is foolish and charge 2.99 for each stock info viewed!!
  • Anna | 04 May 2015, 01:48 PM Agree 0
    As a licensed realtor in the Province of Ontario, a member of OREA and CREA, for over 18 years, it still boggles my mind that ANYONE would try to sell there own home.
    One of the major duties of a licensed realtor is due diligence. Part of that due diligence is protecting the privacy of the home owner. That includes screening potential buyers. Does the buyer even qualify to look at a home before the realtor even begins to work with them.
    If they don't then it is a waste of everyone's time.
    WE Know who we are taking through a family's home. What protection does a seller who is selling their own home have when they let someone in to their home?
    There is SOOO much more to what we do than fill out paperwork and put a sign on a lawn.
    We, as licensed realtors, are accountable to our sellers and buyers. We pay for that accountability as well. And yes, we charge commission for the SERVICES we provide. If you have value and give value, why would you cut your commission? If you don't feel that you have value or provide value, then go ahead, reduce your commission.
    The rest of us will continue to do what we do best, because we believe our clients deserve it.
    PS. I agree with Ian Hocking 100%
  • | 04 May 2015, 02:05 PM Agree 0
    Totally agree with barbara,
    CREA & All your local board directors voted in Favor of not taking the Competition Bureau to a tribunal court hearing on the issue. Poor legal advise if you ask me when the vote should of been presented to the 95,000 ( plus ) members across the country for their vote. is funded and maintained after all by the membership on not a group of Directors from your local boards.
    Time to get rid of the local boards and have all the top 10 companies of Canada ( Market Share ) to start their own REALTOR information sharing MLS system and non of the Armpit Realty companies, Comfree etc ................ can fund and start their own system. Rules and Regulations in the industry would be administered by each Provinical Government agency ( RECA in my case ) which has the final say when it comes to Membership practices.
  • Commission wars | 04 May 2015, 02:57 PM Agree 0
    Realtors talking like dinasours as usaul they think their precious model is unbreakable and they cured does one sell their own home!!!?? Called taking advantage of emotion on a big purchase that majority of consumers didn't realize how much they are paying in commission when emoptions are in the way!!! ..but with online info that is why u are seeing these Commission wars and consumers see it is not rocket science to sell a home. They want to keep their money for their own kinds and expenses..

    plus their own colleagues are fighting with each other..

    Condos have 4 walls and status certificate what can a agent tell u differently!!!!??? THey have crystal balls which when is better for life!!!

    Detached could be sold by toddlers ..they sell themselves with Economics 101 Supply /demand.... Plus, if agents could justify their increase in commission with value they may have something ,,but the only thing increased was home values and commissions..lawyers fees are the same for closing,assistants are payed the same,stagers are payed the same...actually some of these services went down!!!...BUT THE MIGHTY TOUR GUIDE has invented more wheels.
  • Mark J | 04 May 2015, 03:18 PM Agree 0
    Dear Commission Wars

    80% - 90% of your statistics are made up.
  • John | 04 May 2015, 03:54 PM Agree 0
    There's an old saying that definitely applies here "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"!
    There are more than 32,000 real estate agents in the GTA all fighting to sell an average of 4,500 sales per month according to TREB.

    Do the math, assuming there is a selling agent and a buyer agent on each deal, every month at least 23,000 agent don't have a sale!

    Isn't this proof enough that there is already significant competition in our real estate industry? Too many people think being a real estate agent is easy, well it is not! The turn over in agents is extremely high as many must bow out because they can't make a living at it. The only people fighting for "more competition" are large companies (including cable companies???) that want to take what little profit there is for themselves and they want to do it by discrediting the existing system. I know there are some "bad apples" like there is in every industry, but for the vast majority, real estate agents are solid, honest, hard working people who know how to properly market a home while maintaining privacy and decorum through all the legal, marketing, financial and other hurdles the public must face trying to sell or buy a home.

    If the politicians want to go after something that is out of whack, go after the senate.
  • Hard Working Agent | 04 May 2015, 06:14 PM Agree 0
    "Commission Wars" statement that 80-90% of agents pay to guard the 10-20% "ego agents" is absolute nonsense. The people who reach the 10-20% range work their butts off and invest in their businesses. Those that don't either don't understand or can't make the commitment necessary to do well in this industry or aren't looking to make a good living, just augment their spouse's income, their pension, or their other job. There are lots of people in the industry that reach the top 10% in their first couple of years, so there is no monopoly by the productive agents. Those who put in the time and effort and understand the business are the ones who are successful, just as athletes who put the most effort into their fundamentals are usually more successful.

    On the other side of the fence, there are people who tell you they have been in the real estate business for 20 years but actually have been in it for one year 20 times. They wake up every day and wonder why they aren't doing more business. Typically, the low commission models don't work because the real estate business isn't a cheap one to be in. Low commission models have been around for years and they haven't been successful because they generally don't compensate for the work that you have to put into the business. There is a hell of a lot more to selling a home than just putting it on the Internet.

    There are two things I believe are wrong with the industry. The first one is the agency model of trying to get as many warm bodies as they can working for their agency so they can collect fees on each agent. It's a model that makes more money on having 10 poor or mediocre agents than a couple of top producers. The second is allowing people to treat real estate as a part time business. When you are trusted by someone to help them buy or sell their single most valuable asset, you should be professional enough to make a living selling real estate exclusively, not fitting it in during your off hours from your bar tending or salesclerk job.

    So, "Commission Wars", you should walk a mile in our shoes.

    There is a place for lower cost agents in our business, but ultimately skill and effort will bring better returns. Imagine trying to win the Stanley Cup with the hockey players who will work for the least money.
  • COmmission WARS!!! | 05 May 2015, 09:11 AM Agree 0
    Very winded!! Hockey players comparisons(paying top dollar doesn't guarantee a Stanley Cup fool)!!! ur Reaching is very desperate. Didn't reply why lawyers, stagers, assistants,advertisers, why haven't their fees sky rocketed??

    Home prices went up not the value or service of the realtor. These days I feel the lawyers, stagers,assistants their worth/value has increased the most but their wages,costs stayed the same or went down.

    Ur own colleagues are fighting the whole model along with consumers.

    hard working agent thinks if you pay $20,000-$50,000 you can't lose..just like his analogy if you pay hockey players you win the Stanley Cup!!

    Nobody has ever found great service or value at a very reasonable rate!!! ???? Consumers there are top /great agents out there that will list ur house for a 1000-2000 and great results. These great agents will sell you a house and kick back 90% plus of the commission back!!!!!

    Search the internet and you will find plenty!!! Keep ur money for ur own kids and expenses.
  • | 05 May 2015, 09:35 AM Agree 0
    This is becoming ridiculous
  • Commission Wars | 05 May 2015, 10:04 AM Agree 0
    I agree it is ridiculous these agents charging 4-5% to tour real estate!!! Consumers paying big commissions so TREB can use that money/fees to fight starving agents who want to offer a fair,well valued service for $1,000-$2,000. GREEDY OR WHAT!!! With all the fighting internally and consumers waking up the MODEL is crumbling for EGO FEES
  • Joanne | 05 May 2015, 12:12 PM Agree 0
    I totally agree with Barbara, I'm at a loss with this whole MLS thing. I have some furniture for sale can I put on Sears website??
  • DIY WARS | 05 May 2015, 06:17 PM Agree 0
    Barbara I would use kijiji because it is freeeeeee....many consumers are learning and going in the direction of doing it themselves...instead of paying someone to be a tour guide/or fill out some online forms for them for ...hold on ,drum roll!!!! $20,000-$$$$$$50,000..that is correct if you can fill out some forms,have a taxi ,able to tour and open doors to bedrooms,closets ,...many consumers want you do it for them for 4 yrs of Tuition for all their kids!!! what a deal....
  • Hard Worker | 06 May 2015, 02:01 PM Agree 0
    Ladies and Gentleman,

    "Commission Wars" is an absolute internet TROLL whose daily routine is to get under your skins. He/she looks forward to the above! It's the same-old sad (wine and cheese!) song. Nothing changes! Read any other posts out there! How do I know? Because I'm a hard-working individual (like many others in other industries!) who is part of the real estate industry. I read these articles when I have time for knowledge, keeping up-to-date, and interest! And I see his/her ignorant comments all the time. There is nothing productive about it! He/she spends time insulting hard-working individuals and making assumptions! That's a fact!

    I don't know! Maybe he/she doesn't have a life... and/or maybe he/she tried to get their license and failed!... and/or he/she had a negative experience buying and selling!... and/or maybe he/she is frustrated with everything around them! ...I would guess he/she complains about everything (including non-real estate... probably on other forums as well!) Who knows!

    ... Please stay tuned for "Commission Wars" (or whatever other TROLL name he/she uses!) heart-warming reply to this message!

  • $1,000 listing total cost | 06 May 2015, 02:53 PM Agree 0
    Insights of HARD WORKER ( btw tour guides don't work that hard as far I have seen) I supported the lawyers,stagers,advertisers,assistants of the REstate world whos pay has gone nowhere and actually it has down in some cases. All the whining comes from the tour guides who don't want changes to their tour service that pays well from some foolish buyers/ sellers . Service and value of the realtor is no different in 40 yrs except prices went up....

    I have never said u are worthless you do serve a service,tour guide, open doors, look up comparables,fill out some forms. That is worh as I have said many times and large numbers of ur colleagues offer that rate!!! Let me hear ur warmth to ur compeitors??

    Ur monopoly on data is a nonsense..boasting ir should be private...only share all of it if I list or sell ur home!!! If it was so sacred nobody should see other peoples info!!!

    Surprised these hard working agents even have the time to share their pouty comments...toilet scrubbers are the hard workers not the tour guides

    Consumers shop for the $1,000-$2,000 agent to list or sell ur house
  • Lol | 06 May 2015, 07:01 PM Agree 0
    Good job "HARD WORKER"!

    You got that "TROLL" typing again! ...and 52 minutes after your message! @ Has absolutely no life! You hit a soft spot!!!

    Btw, you are more than welcome to access the information by taking out your wallet and paying for it at the Registry office! WE pay for it! ...unlike TROLLS who expect handouts!

    Please reply in less than 52 minutes this time as you do have a message indicator!

  • Barley Need a High Scholl Diploma | 06 May 2015, 08:00 PM Agree 0
    Realtors are so cute responding to trolls ..just surprises me all that HARD WORK THEY ARE DOING ALL THE TIME how do they find the time to respond ..must be exhausting checking new listings!! This is what u find amusing??.. talk about reaching for a comeback...

    U offer no support to the lawyers ,stagers,assistants who actually do the really work!!!?? I can just hear the ego agents telling the lawyers they are charging too much, assistants asking too much ...telling them my taxi costs a lot and opening doors is exhausting...

    realtors bragging about their industry that you barley need s a high school diploma for , few months of multiple choice tests...SURGEONS!!

    Most of these agents are like infomercial sales people ... ur industry promotes you too can make easy money just pay ur dues for the legal battles for the egos...80 % of the agents make just enough too eat and pay for the top 20% to promote their high school course they passed
  • KH | 07 May 2015, 02:57 AM Agree 0
    Hey "Barely Need a High School Diploma"... or should I say "Commission Wars"!

    Yes, your absolutely right! If someone reads an article or responds to ignorance they are "cute" and have lots of time on their hands! Agreed!
    It seems as though they are not as busy as you working hard, surfing the net 24/7, trolling, whining, and copy/pasting the same thing over-and-over. Unlike the Realtors and their "high school course" (which you obviously failed!), your PHD allows you the comfort to judge and more importantly to pursue your daily fascinations with this industry!

    More cheese with the wine???

  • Tour Guide | 07 May 2015, 08:49 AM Agree 0
    Door Openers,

    that is all u have?? we are talking about ur industry so try/my advice to defend that tour service before being whitty/cute ...funny not one agent can defend/justify their 4-6% fees... dentists,surgeons ,GP's don't charge as much as the tour guides of real estate.... I guess they have less EGO,monopoly and have a real diploma,

    Check out those new listings,gas up the taxi, new suit/shoes and than take a 3 hour break .

    btw ur own colleagues are fighting over the system so I would start with them !! Make sure u sugar coat that sales presentation for the suckers willing to pay 4-6%

    Consumers shop for the a great agent who charges $1,000-$2,000 to list or sell u a home!!!!
  • Rod | 07 May 2015, 10:13 AM Agree 0
    That is exactly right. Great viewpoint.
  • Neil Hamilton | 07 May 2015, 11:51 AM Agree 0
    ...very well said Ian..
  • Charge agents to share ur home sale info | 07 May 2015, 12:10 PM Agree 0
    Tour Guide and commission wars is the voice of the consumer who wants value for their costs. I agree if the data is open to potential clients how sacred is it than!!!? If it was so private and invasion than why do realtors have or share it!!!! What gives them the right to have it...

    We pay them to safe guard and they can had it out to who they feel like!!!??? My opinon they should have the permission from every owner/pay them to let them share it. I think charge agents $2500.00 if they want to share the sale of my home !!!!!???????

    Consumers time to fight whatever ur signing that gives these tour guides the right to share ur personal info later !!! Time for them to pay us!!!
  • Lol | 07 May 2015, 03:00 PM Agree 0
    Wow! Somebody really needs to get a life and/or see a shrink!

    "Commission Wars/Tour Guide/Barely Need a High School Diploma" has a lot of deep inner issues!

    Brother/Sister! Seriously, get some help! Jealousy, envy, failure, and laziness can really eat at someone!

    Everyone is rooting for you to pull through!

  • Realtor Gods | 07 May 2015, 03:50 PM Agree 0
    Door Openers,

    about me again and where do u tour guides have the time for these forums!!? Right, you are a tour guide they wait around for the next tour. Thx for the concern btw and please if u can spare some time from looking up comparables , looking into the crystal ball, working ur bidding war strategy(toddlers could put together) reply again soon. Shower us with that wisdom on the markets of real estate and how fortunate we all are ... try some defense on why u are worth more than inflation when other parts of the industry costs have gone down??

    you should team up with Uber they/someone will come up with a more direct tour,taxi service to buy real estate.. I offering very good advice and this time real think about ur response and make it about ur tour guide /door opener service. Please for the forum talk about the miracle of trading real estate that you can offer to us mortals.

  • Realistic not realtor | 10 May 2015, 03:23 PM Agree 0
    I have said before consumers are signing over their sold prices for treb to safeguard but soon as it benefits them they hand it out like candy. If it was so private and they are protecting the information why do they hand it out!!!?? Time for consumers to change this clause of allowing agents/treb use of OUR PERSONAL SOLD INFORNMATION to hand out like candy . We should start charging treb/realtors if they want to use it and get permission from consumers.
  • Andy Brown | 10 May 2015, 05:38 PM Agree 0
    I am not one to usually weigh in on these forums however I found your comments most interesting. I think if you understand the meaning of the word monopoly and if you were to re-read Ian's comment then you would also know that there is no monopoly with OUR information as it is readily available at any registry office. It sounds more like you think you should be able to get the information for nothing at someone else's expense. It amazes me that realtors have put a great deal of time as well as money and continue to do so into assembling THEIR DATABASES (remember the government has all this same information in its databases too, but guess what, you have to pay for it and know how to look it up) and now everyone believes that they should have open and unfettered access to it without putting any of their own money in the game. This is paramount to any business having to give its hard earned and paid for product away for nothing. Now if that is a monopoly then so be it but please do not tell us we have to GIVE our information away to anyone under the guise of there being a so called monopoly.
  • | 10 May 2015, 06:36 PM Agree 0
    That's the way it was about 25 years ago. Should we go Backwards?
  • Commission Wars | 10 May 2015, 11:23 PM Agree 0
    The consumers are waking up!!! Charge agents to use our personal SOLD DATA!!!! They say it is so precious/private they will guard it unless someone who will list or buy througt them they will hand it over no questions asked.

    When u sign listing the can do whatever they want with it.....time to fight back and remove this option,,
  • Commission Wars | 10 May 2015, 11:23 PM Agree 0
    The consumers are waking up!!! Charge agents to use our personal SOLD DATA!!!! They say it is so precious/private they will guard it unless someone who will list or buy througt them they will hand it over no questions asked.

    When u sign listing the can do whatever they want with it.....time to fight back and remove this option,,
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