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TREB appeals tribunal decision

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Real Estate Professional | 11 Jul 2016, 10:41 AM Agree 0
The Toronto Real Estate Board is appealing the decision by the Competition Tribunal that would force the board to release its sold and pending sold data, citing privacy concerns
  • Brian Smith | 11 Jul 2016, 11:34 AM Agree 0
    The buyers and sellers deserve the privacy and personal financial information - this information should not be made public for all to see
  • Tour Guide/Door Opener | 11 Jul 2016, 11:46 AM Agree 0
    Dear Door Openers,

    The Tour guides want their monopoly and will spend millions of dollars( their fees they pay annually) from agents who make no money!!

    Prices have sky rocketed not the service they provide wonder there are so many agents they all want to fill out some forms, tour , sell get payed $30,000-$ wonder they have so many members paying fees, courses, Sucked in by EASY STREEET ..40,000 agents paying dues to pay for the Monopoly!!! 5000 reap the rewards...CLASSIC

    they cry about land transfer taxes for US when that money is spread out a little better,,but the 6% commission( artificially inflates prices too) to be a tour guide is not ...OUTRAGEOUS!!!!???
  • Jean-Marc | 11 Jul 2016, 11:49 AM Agree 0
    The competion tribunal!!!
    It is like we don't have enough competition in our field!!
    Where thoses guys come from?
    First we are not a public service and the MLS is a private thing no?
    Who paid for the development of those tools?
    I realy don't beleive it!
    are the car sellers obliged to tell how much they sold a car?
  • J_Cloud | 11 Jul 2016, 12:08 PM Agree 0
    This seem to be a political power game that competition bureau is after ... spending peoples money like there is no end ... look at the tribunal that went after Senators expenses.... the competition Bureau seems to have its own ivory castle .. picking and choosing on ponds ...

    I tried to bring it to the social attention ... whatever I can do about it...
  • J_Cloud | 11 Jul 2016, 12:11 PM Agree 0
    ...and that is ... Picking and Choosing its own Pawns ...sorry for the typo
  • door opener this is a bedoorm | 11 Jul 2016, 12:23 PM Agree 0
    This is the Kitchen,bathroom, den..

    taxi, travel agents, stock brokers etc has changed..... but the last one has 40,000 agents paying for the Legal fees and will benefit zero from it!!! 5000 agents laughing at the 40,000 suckers who pay their fees make no money and will benefit zero.. only way tyhey these 40,000 agents will benefit will be if the bureau finally make it happen , than the 5000 tour guides will have 40,000 agents taking much of their business away and it will sort of even out..

  • Peter B. Realtor | 11 Jul 2016, 12:24 PM Agree 0
    Frankly, your letter is ambiguous at best. Can't really tell if you are supporting the tribunal or TREB but in anycase, where did you get the 6% figure from? I have been licensed for over 16 years and have never charged 6%. I have worked steadily at 3.75% while providing 2.5% to the buyer agent at all times (where seller's finances are not an issue) and yes, I DO provide full services. There are lots of business models doing well providing full services without the 5-6% fee and no, I am not talking about the "list and run" outfits.
    Maybe base your next comment on facts and not preconceptions.
  • Ridic | 11 Jul 2016, 12:26 PM Agree 0
    You sound like a politician, what exactly are you saying, you're for the privacy of the information or not?
  • Ridic | 11 Jul 2016, 12:43 PM Agree 0
    20% make 80% of the money.
    It will never even out dude, 20% know what they're doing, 80% want to know why they're doing but typically fail between 3 months and 3.5 yrs...
    3 monther's started on credit and realize when they're 30k in debt after 3 months, go back to some other type of job.
    3.5 Years'ers realize they spent $60k to earn a $100k and net out at they give up.
    Beyond that, 5% make a pile of Jack. 10% make a good to great living and the bottom 5% (of the 20%) make a living.
    That's the way business works.
    So, quit whining and go to work, build on your strengths(if you have any-and I say that to get your goat, a real strong person knows how to take comments with a grain of salt:look it up on google knucklehead), like the rest of us.
  • Classic Model/ZMany pay for a few | 11 Jul 2016, 12:45 PM Agree 0
    1.25% !! still over charging...Still making 5000-15000..Where is the justification for making that for some paperwork and tour, or another agent bringing a offer ? course took few months, and ur worth 5000-15000 /sale or more? no wonder people are signing up when u can be a high school dropout,fill out some paperwork, ... Almost as bad a Multi levele marketing scheme and people run to sign- up pay dues, take courses...the 5000 agents need that money for legal battle to hold onto their MONOPOLY!!
  • Super Ridic | 11 Jul 2016, 12:52 PM Agree 0
    Ridic thinks he invented the wheel and must be one of those tour guides!! Ur service has not changed in 40 yrs and continue to gouge the consumers with ur monopoly..

    Tour Guide
    Paperwork filler outer
    Taxi service
    Door Opener

    Not the invention of the wheel..

    Take a deep breath Tour Guide even if all 45,000 agents worked triple time, 100 times more ambitious and were special like u ..there are only so many houses/condos to go around...
  • yc broker | 11 Jul 2016, 12:54 PM Agree 0
    Classic model not very experienced in the business, probably jumped in and jumped back out when the going got tough. Been in this business 12 years and constantly upgrading and studying all related programs to protect and benefit my client, never mind all our expenses and insurances to hold ourselves accountable to our clients ' biggest transaction of their lives, no we are not Uber taxies!!.
  • Comparables /Genius | 11 Jul 2016, 12:54 PM Agree 0
    Consumers don't need these tour guides ..if consumers could look at comparable prices like the tour guides and shoot for that or more..WOW HOW DiD THEY COME WITH SUCH GENIUS SKILLS!!
  • Matt | 11 Jul 2016, 01:16 PM Agree 0
    Ah, Tour Guide (or whatever you feel like calling yourself this time), it's been a while! It's good to see your obsession with our industry hasn't waned at all, and that you're still kicking around to make asinine uneducated statements. Remind me...who are you soapboxing to here?

    Anyways, I came to the comment section hoping to find discussion about the article, not ramblings of some bitter failed guy, and other agents defending their own models. This article has nothing to do with commissions or business models, it has to do with consumer privacy protection.
  • INsight | 11 Jul 2016, 01:42 PM Agree 0
    Matt has so much insight into people he became a tour guide and said I will take you to places (taxi)for a fee. I have skills in paperwork filling outer, taxi service , door opening and touring..think parks Canadahas employees like that and they sure don't charge 20,000-30,000..
    U barley need a high school diploma, 3 month course and ur touring , paying dues to pay fo rthe Legal battle for the few

    privacy only if benefits the monopoly of the tour guide that changes... these tour guides will and hand out the info like candy if they smell a listing/sale.. I believe the records are public too at city hall!!

    Most astonishing how these tour guides even have the time to come on here when they are so busy, touring, looking at comparables, waiting for a another agent to do a showing, arranging lockboxes,pictures, gasing up the taxi, ordering a new suit...
    45,000 agents elling ahandful of houses...and there arguments they invented the wheel..other agents "NOT KNOW HOW I AM SPECIAL" they should work matty or whoever says those agents are lazy or don't put enough into it.. MAtty do the math and see how many homes are sold and divide it by 45,000..u can use a calculator too if u struggle..
  • Michael | 11 Jul 2016, 02:40 PM Agree 0
    With this thought process in mind it will be interesting to see the car companies, retailers, insurance companies, banks, investment houses etc. post all the sale data on their websites. I
  • | 11 Jul 2016, 04:20 PM Agree 0
    your an idiot!!!
  • | 11 Jul 2016, 04:20 PM Agree 0
    your an idiot!!!
  • | 11 Jul 2016, 04:26 PM Agree 0
    you idiots... so if its that easy a - hole's why don't you become tour guides! And its about sold info and privacy info idiots, not tour guides...unbelievable!!
  • Dan S | 11 Jul 2016, 05:34 PM Agree 0
    Well said John B Realtor, the comments by (Door Opener) were so inaccurate they are meaningless and demonstrate clearly his ignorance of the profession.
  • Sharon | 11 Jul 2016, 06:09 PM Agree 0
    My neighbour just bought a car. He says he got a sweet deal but the dealership asked him not to say how much he paid. I want to know what he bought the car for so I know whether or not I want to go to that dealership. In fact I want to know how much all the dealerships in the area sold that model of car for. I would like the competition bureau to deal with this issue.
  • Mae | 11 Jul 2016, 06:32 PM Agree 0
    TREB is a privately funded entity which is paid for by its members. There are items on the listings such as showing instructions (i.e times the owners are home or not home or whether the owner is a single person) which does not belong in the public domain for person safety. Also the listing may indicate the property is vacant which can lead to vandalism. Does MPAC or GEO warehouse give out the information to the general public for free? You have to join there service and pay for "public" information. Maybe MPAC should become open and free so the public can go in and look at what everyone on their street is assessed for.
  • idiots | 11 Jul 2016, 08:39 PM Agree 0
    what do u mean? Public are idiots for paying outrageous fees for tour guides?...couldn't agree more..
  • | 11 Jul 2016, 08:41 PM Agree 0
    Car delaerships don't run a monopoly..
  • e. harold | 11 Jul 2016, 09:07 PM Agree 0
    competition tribunal is another gov't joke !!!
  • Matt | 11 Jul 2016, 09:56 PM Agree 0
    @tour guides - for all the moaning you do, you've never answered the questions that were posed to you.
    1. When was the last time you bought a house?
    2. When was the last time you sold a house?
    3. What do YOU do for a living?

    I know, I know...don't feed the trolls. But this one is so starved for attention it seems, so I throw him a bone once in a while. Give him a bit of attention, and he's kind of like having an online delinquent pet.
  • PRE SCHOOLER | 11 Jul 2016, 10:50 PM Agree 0
    did u check all those comparables? Must be exhausted,,, how come tour guide when you debate/justify ur over priced service u talk about trolls,attention seekers..u sound like a great negotiator..tell the forum what u can offer... FILLER OUTER FORMS, TAXI MAN , DOOR OPENER, TOUR GUIDE, LOOK UP COMPARABLES

    supply and demand houses could be sold by pre schooler
  • Matt | 12 Jul 2016, 01:57 AM Agree 0
    Well, thank you, I have tons of past clients that agree with you, I am a great negotiator! Why are you asking me questions (in a rather condescending command like way) when you're unwilling (unable?) to honestly answer a couple simple questions yourself? Your character is rather transparent, but it's still confusing as to who you think your audience is.

    Saying that it could be done by a preschooler shows an enormous level of ignorance. So tell you what, if you decide to grow a pair and answer the questions that I posed you, I'll respond in kind to yours.
  • Peter B. Realtor | 12 Jul 2016, 08:08 AM Agree 0
    I believe, by the style and intonation of the comments along with the phonetic spelling and overall poor structure of many of the "responses" that most of the complaints are expressed by one or two individual who post under many aliases.

    Tour Guide/Door Opener, Pre schooler, Ridic and company should at least learn to spell.

    Let's stick to the point: The information is collected and paid for by member agents.
    Some make more than others, as in many professions. That isn't the point.
    Many charge varying fees and provide varying levels of service. That isn't the point.

    Has UBER changed the taxi world? Yes.
    Is UBER providing a service? No. Uber owners got together and thought "how can we make money?". They created an app-system that links private car owners and would-be taxi users and make a portion off of every user. They bullied the city-hall into accepting their illegal "service. "Very smart.
    The taxi-drivers losing their income? UBER doesn't care. Yet many think them "heroes" for "creating new and exciting opportunities for consumers".
    Why not "UBER" everything? Why not force lawyers to post their closing costs (showing real cost and mark up) on a sign at the entry of their business?
    Let's do the same for dentists and veterinarians as well.

    As for the "tour guide" bullshit, how many Fort McMurrey tour guides are making a living right now?
    Do you really believe that because Vancouver and the GTA is busy that all Realtors are making money hand over fist?
    When the market slows, as it always does, where is our "guaranteed income, pension or assistance?" Doesn't exist.
    An average town home in my marketing area is $340,000. That's around $4,200 prior to expenses so where do you find the $20-40K figure if not deep up your rear end?

    The information is not and never has been free. Someone has to pay for the collection and has paid for, in time and effort and dues, for the information that has been amassed to date.

    By the way, what are the "competition tribunal" members earning for their work? Whatever it is, seems like a-lot for what amounts to reading and making declarations.
  • Blubbering | 12 Jul 2016, 11:06 AM Agree 0
    Peter the tour guide justifying his outrageous fees with the typical blubber...ur service has not changed in 40 yrs, couple of forms, tour,pics, door opening,taxi service.look at comparables, wait for another agent to show, and hot market. Pre-schooler could accomplish that with 3 days of mentoring. Don't flatter urself u are not a surgeon or invented the wheel. Prices have gone up and ur service stayed the same. Ur commissions don't reflect ur service bottom line.

    40000 agents are paying for ur battle against Comp bureau and u Sold it to those 40,000 agents with the life of easy street...almost like multil level marketing scheme...there are only so many houses and 45,000 agents even if they workd 96 hour day, even with more blubber there is not enough houses ..

    Peter sounds condencending to grammer and spelling!! U are a TOUR GUIDE /DOOR OPENER!!
  • Patman | 12 Jul 2016, 11:55 AM Agree 0
    A monopoly is when you have to go to the LCBO to buy liquor at what ever price tag is on the bottle, NO DISCOUNT HERE, Going to work at a real estate office sitting at your desk and wondering what to do next to make some money is NOT a monopoly, it's a job. By the way this job at the end of the week, at the end of the month, will pay you nothing, yes nothing, if you made no deals. With 45,000 agents in the Toronto area and an average of 10,000 sales per month, you do the math! Ok, not smart enough, I will do the math for you, it means that 35,000 agents made no money that month and who knows what the next month might bring.

    May I suggest you go get your Real Estate tour guide licence and start making millions yourself, what's stopping a bright guy like you anyways?
  • Patman | 12 Jul 2016, 12:05 PM Agree 0
    If you are a better tour guide sell your own house, I have no problem with that, and you can pay yourself the 5% commission and make a pile of money. O sorry, I take that back, you have to give the buyer the 5% commission because he will force you to discount by at least 5% because you have no Agent to pay. Sorry yes I'm so sorry. Sometimes things just don't quite work out the way you would want them to be.
  • | 12 Jul 2016, 12:12 PM Agree 0
    Peter, you make some fantastic points, and I'm on the same page as you here. You and I have different business models, but we also have vastly different markets. My average sale in the market I'm in is between $160,000 and $180,000. And yet we're in agreement here, if for no other reason than this article has nothing to do with any of that, yet the multi named tour guide would have us believe that every article written is about his perceived (misinformed/misguided) jealousy of what our careers entail. Am I a surgeon? Nope. But what I am doing is helping real people make some of the biggest financial decisions of their life. Guiding them through what's often times an overwhelming process where it's easy to get taken advantage of, and making sure that they are protected, informed, and making well thought out decisions. Did I invent the wheel? Nope. But I did make it better.

    And this is only a portion of what I do. Am I justified in what I charge? Yes. And I have a long list of clients behind me that agree with that. I'm not afraid to put my real name on here, but "Tour Guides" obviously is. I can and have fully articulated the value that I bring my clients, yet "Tour Guides" always ignores that and then repeats the same (to use his own words) blubbering. He reminds me of a Trump matter how much rational logic or reasoning you throw at him, he blindly rails at the same thing over and over, making these forums not much better than a YouTube comment section dominated by 11 year olds with poor attitudes and poorer language skills.

    I just spoke with the author of this article, and one thing I said was that even though I support TREB in their decision to fight for the privacy rights of the public, I don't think it will have any impact on my career in any way whatsoever. I am tragically disappointed in the Competition Bureau for even trying to make this fight, it doesn't make any sense to me. The information that they're looking for is public record at the registry office after a deal has closed, for a fee. It's not a fee we collect, it's one the government collects.

    Is there corruption in the industry? Of course there are bad apples...there's not a single industry that doesn't have them. There are, however, far more corrupt and dangerous industries that the Bureau really SHOULD be going after. They seem as blind to this as this "Tour Guides" guy (or girl, for all I know) is.

    So Peter, keep doing what you're doing, it sounds like you're doing a good job. At the end of the day, this particular matter won't effect or hinder you or I. All it's doing is showing that the Competition Bureau is more willing to harm the people they claim to protect to try and make an empty point.
  • Matt | 12 Jul 2016, 12:14 PM Agree 0
    I'm not sure why that post I just wrote didn't attach my name, I thought I was signed in.
  • Justify | 12 Jul 2016, 12:18 PM Agree 0
    not debating agents serve a purpose they just are over payed for what they offer. Homes inflated rapidly ur service has not changed.

    So it averages 3 home per/agent/yr.... So if the argument is work harder for every agent the max would be 3 homes, so multi level marketing that treb created..they needed those dues/fees for pay themselves nicely,fight worthless battles ... if u offer something so valuable it shouldn't matter the rules.

    These tour guides cry the city is charging extra land transfer fee of 1% when the tour guides are charging 6% for what!!??? Paperwork and tours. Now we know who is gouging..

    The odd agent s tries to justify these commissions and blubbers on about expenses..hosung is selling itself 95%--role of agent is comparables, tours,taxi,paperwork ...please tell me what else justifies these fees
  • Matt | 12 Jul 2016, 12:47 PM Agree 0
    Oh settle down, and knock it off. You keep saying 6%, yet no one I know charges that. You obviously don't know what's involved in the job, or everything it entails. Houses don't "sell themselves". If they did, than you just contradicted yourself (again) when you said you're not debating that agents serve a purpose. I'm not going to speak for all realtors, obviously, but in the 9 years I've been licenced my services have changed. I offer more services now than when I started. It's all to meet the same end, but different services are needed in an ever changing environment. If you want to use TREB as the only example, you're in the wrong forum.

    And 3 homes per year? hahaha. No way I'd be able to put food on the table with numbers like that, so again, you're whining to the wrong crowd.

    Finally, if you want to continue to skip this record, find an article that talks about this subject. You're in the wrong article forum, whining to the wrong people, with wrong information. You can't even argue right or engage in any intelligible conversation.
  • SUckers | 13 Jul 2016, 08:42 AM Agree 0
    Just go tot CBC forum comments on this and u will see the real publics thinking. THis forum(pretty bias) is just tour guides telling us why touring is worth 20,000 and up per deal!! Hey if u can convince sellers/buyers to pay u 20,000-50,000 to do some paperwork, tour,take pics,taxi..go for it. My stand is u are over paid for what we get in return. If the public saw the comparables which are public anyway many consumers can do there own neogiating by shooting for the comparable or even more...not rocket science especially in a sellers market.

    As I said before treb pushes for more agents( more fee/dues/courses) who make little money or no money because there is only so many houses to list/sell. Previous comments it works out to 3 houses on no matter who lucky,hard u work and ambitious u are not enough inventory,,,but treb gets there money to fight for a few EGO tour guides
  • 3 homes ave/yr | 13 Jul 2016, 09:38 AM Agree 0
    many of these agents debate about everything except justifying their inflated fees....only reason their fees are up is prices of homes have sky rocketed but what they offer has not changed....must competitive models have all seen their fees/commissions gone down..except the monopoly of realtors using 40,000 agents who make nothing to pay for the 5000 ego tour guides fight in the courts....wake up there are only average of 3 home per agent/yr you will never make any money and paying all those fees you will never get ahead..
  • Matt | 13 Jul 2016, 12:54 PM Agree 0
    *sigh* I know you're only posting now to get a reaction, and I wasn't going to bother responding, but your last one...are you contradicting yourself intentionally, or are you just confused?

    "Your fees are inflated/you charge too much...wake up, you'll never make any money/you'll never get ahead".

    You've complained that none of us have justified to you why our fees are what they are, but I have. I've entertained you by explaining why I can easily justify making $3,000 - $6,000 per sale, but you've never once acknowledged just trash talk in response. And even though I've answered your questions, you've never once answered mine in kind. Why is that?
  • NEW MODEL OF A FLAT FEE FOR EVERYONE | 13 Jul 2016, 01:40 PM Agree 0
    I f the total comm. on homes/Condos was 3000-6000 for selling and listing I could live with that.

    Example 500,000 home

    Listing fee 2000-2500 Should be thankful to fill out some forms and be payed 2500 !!!!
    Selling fee 2500-3000 ..typically they offer more in the transaction than Paperwork lister and this is generous ...typically they want more to pay for a nicer car, clothes!!

    With this model u have my blessing otherwise Competition/ fairness from the federal govn should put a stop to ur ridiculous fees u ask for
  • Matt | 13 Jul 2016, 02:00 PM Agree 0
    That's the first semi positive comment I think I've ever seen you write! The problem you're showing is that you're sweeping the entire industry under the rug of one particular market, and that's not fair at all. I've been selling real estate for nearly a decade now, and the average sale has been between $150,000-$180,000. That puts my gross at around 4k. After you take into account the expenses I cover (with no guaranteed return), I net far less than what you're railing against.

    And I'm not the exception either. I don't know a single agent that makes anywhere close to what you're describing. There's also an incredibly higher amount of work, responsibility, and accountability involved than what you seem to think. I average 60 hours a week, and if you want to be successful in this industry, that's the norm.

    There are things about the industry I'd like to see changed, for sure. But the items you're describing are not amongst them, simply because what you're saying is not accurate.

    btw, you still haven't answered any of my questions...
  • $2500 listing $2500 sale | 14 Jul 2016, 08:47 AM Agree 0
    Tell the 45000 treb is hiring too many agents to collect fees to fight useless battles . These fights are to protect the monopoly for a few thousand tour guides and the majority are paying for thier monopoly. Consumers should pay no more than 2000-2500 for listing and 2500 for sales. lawyer is just as important and probably serves even more purpose and makes 800-1200!!!!!! Makes no sense.
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