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Watchdog wins case against TREB

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Justin da Rosa | 28 Apr 2016, 04:14 PM Agree 0
The industry is about to change following a decision that may force TREB to make its sold data public
  • | 28 Apr 2016, 04:43 PM Agree 0
    Who or what organization 1st allowed our MLS private info (that our professional organizations built) to be shared with sites like should be "tar and feathered"
  • Tony T | 28 Apr 2016, 04:58 PM Agree 1
    Finally justice is served. Sorry realtors, your days are officially numbered. RIP TREB LOL
  • paco | 28 Apr 2016, 05:04 PM Agree 0
    Wow here is an organization who has no authority in how our data should be distributed yet feels the need and the power to hold us hostage with what we own. Why isn't the magnifying glass on those organizations who bring nothing into our system but only find a vain to justify their existence. For this is why bottom feeders should never be allowed to hold the mic. They have no idea of how real estate works. The power of negotiations only can happen if our information is protected, and the only reason why this system works is because we as professions contribute to accurate reliable sales data. Its the same reason why banks hate private sales........
  • Allison | 28 Apr 2016, 05:12 PM Agree 0
    Sorry realtors your days are numbered? That's funny. Like hairdressers or mechanics would crumble because some people want to style their own bangs or change their own oil. Bitter much?
  • | 28 Apr 2016, 05:13 PM Agree 0
    That is fine, but if this is all public information which it has become anyway, why is the mls system still paid for by realtors? Time to stop paying, if everyone can access it without payment why should realtors be penalized?
  • Allison | 28 Apr 2016, 05:16 PM Agree 0
    Classy post.
  • Tony T | 28 Apr 2016, 05:52 PM Agree 1
    Try the Zillow website or app in the U.S., historical sold prices and lots of other info is PUBLIC. You don't hear realtors complaining down there like the sissys and wimps in Toronto. About time that TREB has their butts handed to them.
  • Terry | 28 Apr 2016, 06:42 PM Agree 0
    " That is fine, but if this is all public information which it has become anyway, why is the mls system still paid for by realtors ? Time to stop paying, if everyone can access it without payment why should realtors be penalized ? "

    Because that, my friend, will be the cost of being a realtor and the cost of doing business. Sucks to be us. We can always ask for more commission, the public is so understanding.
  • | 28 Apr 2016, 07:07 PM Agree 0
    If I was a Seller and wishes to keep my data to be fairly confined to legitimate professionals and not to all the interest seekers out there - then I just won't allow it to be posted at all .
  • Maria | 28 Apr 2016, 07:28 PM Agree 0
    Personally speaking, It does not bother me a bit sale prices might be made public, Treb is here to stay!
    Give me a break!
  • | 28 Apr 2016, 08:22 PM Agree 0
    I understood we cannot make sold info public (outside of the MLS) without the permission of Seller and Buyer in writing due to privacy Act and enforced by RECO etc etc.............something seems in conflict here with government busybodies........b
  • Dave | 28 Apr 2016, 08:58 PM Agree 0
    So now it will finally be public info how many times a house was relisted and the price drops along with it. Basically showing the whole market how many lies the realtors and TREB tried to cover up for years. Sold over asking? Don't think so. Check the first listing price from a year ago! Lol. This is gonna be great.
  • Andrew King | 28 Apr 2016, 10:53 PM Agree 2
    Sold Price can be posted as soon as title transfers. is paid for by REALTORS® and is part of CREA who licences REALTOR® from NAR and lobbies the federal government on behalf of homeowners and the industry. The issue here is all about the Competition Act. You cannot stifle competition by restricting territories or business models. Specifically in this case about REALTORS® posting historical sales and listing data such as the sold price on their websites. The MLS® is unlikely to be made public as it does contain private owner information. Ultimately, the power of the MLS® is to search comparable properties both listed and recently sold to establish fair market value as well as market trends. The balance has to be struck between protecting the sellers negotiating position and personal information and encouraging fair open competition.
  • Mark Ranger | 29 Apr 2016, 12:13 AM Agree 0
    It's not a Multiple Listing SERVICE, it's a Multiple Listing SYSTEM designed and paid for by REALTORS to facilitate the collaborative efforts of the Real Estate Profession in matching one another's buyers and sellers toward a successful transaction to the mutual benefit of those buyers and sellers.

    Take that away and it is the public that has the most to lose.
  • Peter B. Realtor | 29 Apr 2016, 09:02 AM Agree 0
    So, competition board, let's make the following changes to the Canadian service environment to "help introduce innovative new services to consumers and prevent anti-competitive practices" (paraphrased words of yours).

    Dental practitioners must post ALL service fees at the front of the office so helpless patients can look at the fees and choose to pick another practitioner (in Ontario, the cost of dental cleaning is about $280 per hours, charged in convenient 1/4 blocks. Do most of your friends make $280 in a days work?. Creating "cleaning and hygiene" only offices to provide cleaning and descaling services at a lower fee will substantially help those that do not have access to services due to inadequate income and will help to reduce mouth-born disease.)This might eventually force the ODA (Ontario) to drop their "recommended fee structure (but dentists do not have to follow these fee guidelines and are allowed to charge less... right.

    Should it happen? Yes. will it happen? No.

    Lawyers can be forced to present their prospective clients with a list of alternative lower-cost service providers, like paralegals, to provide those services that can adequately be performed by non-lawyers.

    Should? Yes. Will? No.

    And you Doctors, instead of claiming that you will not be able to provide adequate services without more government (tax payers) money (so you are claiming that more money will make you a better doctor? How so?) let the government do what it should do by using the available tax dollars to allow for a greater number of Doctors to be licensed to work so that the workload can be spread out more. More Doctors will increase the availability of services in hard to service communities (like our northern ones). Better service for patients, shorter wait times, less workload for you. But no, you will continue to spread the OMS load around and miss-inform patients with your distortions.

    Should it change? Yes. will it? No.

    Basically, Realtors are picked on because we are an unstructured bunch, and it is assumed that we chose our profession because we couldn't find real work. I left a good paying career for the flexibility of our profession and am proud of the service I provide.

    Ownership of the TREB statistics, which are paid for my members, should be handed over to the members as shares. Each member gets a share and vote on the dissemination of this information. Yea, that will shut the commissioner up.

    Not to sound bitter but as the Caymen Island fiasco reveals, those with big bucks will always win and those with fewer dollars will always be pressured to pay more and more.
  • Alan Dayes, Broker | 29 Apr 2016, 09:10 AM Agree 0
    At some point the Tribunals wants and the mandate of the privacy act are going to converge. Then, who is in charge of the "data" that so many seem to want to get their hands on? As realtors we are mandated to protect information for our principles and that in many cases includes the sale price of a property. Do any of these agencies actually speak with each other or do they just engage random rule change suggestions to appease the minority?
  • Tony T | 29 Apr 2016, 09:47 AM Agree 0
    As usual , all the realtors on here complaining that they should still be able to hide and twist sales data. Anything to keep posting those misleading "sold over asking " signs .
  • Jimmy J | 29 Apr 2016, 10:14 AM Agree 0
    Ha ha Tony T What a Troll you are I love it.
  • Steve | 29 Apr 2016, 11:57 AM Agree 0
    Peter B. is right and makes the most sense. Seems like he is saying what we all are thinking.

    Tony T, the T is for Troll clearly. Just seems like a toddler trying to pick a fight for no reason and not getting any reactions. LOL, so pointless. Troll away Tony.

    If the information is made public then the system should be paid for by the public. Just like how we pay for all government websites through our taxes. This is just common sense when you think about it. The bigger problems that come with this are the increased amount of inaccurate information (due to many reasons but a few are: lack of knowledge, understanding and lack of care), new regulations that have to be made to deal with the public and all disagreements and lawsuits that will arise. Which evidently will take a lot of time and money to resolve which will be paid by who.... that's right the taxpayers. Does our privacy act really mean nothing to the government (aka the competition bureau in this case) or are they just deflecting from bigger issues like they seem to always do?

    If the Privacy Act isn't taken into serious consideration when they are ruling on this decision then this will more than likely set a precedent for the next time the government wants to further infringe on our privacy rights as citizens. This issue deals with a much bigger picture than just realtors sharing information. Think about it. The government would never do anything without gaining something in return, whether it would be monetary interest or image at the end of the day its all politics and appearance is everything.
  • carolyn | 29 Apr 2016, 12:31 PM Agree 0
    I do not have any issue with the information being made public, we discuss it openly with clients when we are deciding pricing, just have an issue with realtors having to pay (and having paid for years) for a system designed and staffed by their monies when it is accessible to anyone. Either everyone should pay for it, or it should be a government service. Despite what Tony the troll thinks most realtors are not trying to hide anything, nor do they distort prices, and their value goes far beyond pricing a property.
  • | 29 Apr 2016, 12:42 PM Agree 0
    As a private individual, I don't want the SOLD price of my house to be made public. The last thing I want is for nosey neighbours and acquaintances to know how much I sold my house for. I would STRONGLY protest the Competition Bureau's decision. We'll see if the Competition Bureau trumps the Privacy commissioner.

    I would also encourage realtors to protest to preserve their clients privacy (at least limited access on a need to know basis).
  • Diane | 29 Apr 2016, 02:11 PM Agree 0
    I am a professional realtor for many years and find it really interesting that all these government agencies are attacking us. The privacy act, the competition act, the realtors board rules, Crea, B.C. Council and more, mandate what we realtors can and will do in the best interest of the public. Yes in all associations their might be some issues that need to be addressed, but I believe we do a darn good job of that bearing in mind the number of transactions we handle in a year. Information can and is very dangerous if a person does not know how to interpret it and use it for all the right reasons. The mls systems around Canada are fed with information from realtors helping realtors, we supply the information and work extremely hard at keeping it's integrity. What do you think giving the public our sold information means to the betterment of the deal. All this information is shared with a buyer at the time of contract. Maybe we public need to have all the information stored in these government agencies computers to analyze.
  • Bo Xilai | 29 Apr 2016, 02:21 PM Agree 0
    That's like saying only stock brokerage firms should know the trading price of a stock, bid/ask spread and trading volume on the stock exchange. Transparency and and open market necessitates access to sales data. Stock exchanges and brokerage firms are also private organizations but the sales data they generate are freely available. The real estate industry in Canada could learn from the US and from the securities industry.
  • Bo Xilai | 29 Apr 2016, 02:23 PM Agree 0
    You can make the same argument about stock exchanges and brokerage firms, yet all the sales data generated is freely available to the public and everybody wins by ensuring transparency and open access. Time to get in the 21st century REALTORS.
  • Zillow | 29 Apr 2016, 02:55 PM Agree 0
    Technology has usurped the RE Cartel. In the US Zillow provides independent all encompassing information which benefits the consumer. Here in Canada Viewpoint Realty in Nova Scotia provides much the same. Both with the click of the mouse

    Anyone that would argue withholding this information is helpful to the consumer is trying to hide something
  • Great job at deflection!! | 29 Apr 2016, 09:12 PM Agree 0
    The best defense is a good offense.
    Clap. Clap.
    Well done Peter B realtor!

    All realtors make heaps of commission.
    You're running scared....
    So you should be...
  • Get real | 29 Apr 2016, 09:16 PM Agree 0
    Get real Diane!

    The entire public needs ALL info.

    Not just the skewed info from said realtor.

    Not just the certain choices realtors DECIDE to show a person.

    Realtors better wake up and be real.

    The public is too smart.

    All people deserve info.
    Not just realtors. It's a database.

    No more
    No less

    Negotiation don't hinge on the database

    Despite realtors telling the public the do.

    It's all smoke and mirrors.

    All realitors are smoke and mirrors.
  • Zillow - you're smart | 29 Apr 2016, 09:18 PM Agree 0
    I agree, Zillow.
    They're trying to hide something.
    It's quite obvious.
  • Wake up Canada | 29 Apr 2016, 09:26 PM Agree 0
    There's no such thing as a nosy neighbour
    A neighbour is entitled to know the sales on their street...

    After all, post-writer---before your house sold?
    Your realtor told you all kinds of sold prices, of houses near try to help you establish a selling price.

    Ahhh all its splendour.
  • Red Flags All Over | 29 Apr 2016, 09:32 PM Agree 0
    I think Steve and Peter B are partners in real estate! Lol

    The public would happily pay to know real estate info.
    And yep! Another body can organize a database of info.

    Quite easily actually!

    I find realtors get quite defensive.
    Quite angry.
    Quite pissy ....when they think things will change.

    Another red flag about realtors and the entire business.
  • Darcy T | 01 May 2016, 02:45 PM Agree 0
    I am a REALTOR and not surprised that this has happened. It has been a long time coming.
    However, I don't see it changing much either. Some new brokerage models will appear to allow a "Do-it-your-self" model, much like many of the For Sale By owner Sites & brokerages in existence today. They are flourishing now because of the market we are in, but like many of these models before them, they have yet to prove them selves in a down market.
    However, since the majority of home Buyers/Seller do not engage in many real estate transactions in their life time, the value of the Broker/Agent, will be in the knowledge and Service they provide. If a Buyer/Seller does not feel like working with an Agent, they will simply go at it on their own, or with some service that owes them no fiduciary duty. Knowing the inventory, past sales and market trends are the keys to success of a Realtor, but simply providing that data on a spreadsheet online will not make the general public a local area expert. If anything, the amount of data may confuse the average person.
    If anything, this could mean the end of the "part time" agent and the rise of the SUPER TEAMS, who can benefit from building bigger, flashier websites to catch more people in their sales funnels.
    Things are changing, but Zillow & Trulia didn't kill the Agent in the US, just as this decision won't here.

  • | 01 May 2016, 03:07 PM Agree 0
    So I guess that means that Ford can advertise on any GM site! This decision will change advertising forever! The site was designed by Realtors for Realtors belonging to CREA!
  • Peter B. Realtor | 01 May 2016, 05:18 PM Agree 0
    Seriously, are Red Flags and Tony the troll too daft to understand what they are reading or is twisting comments just part of their ploy.
    Realtors pay for the collection of information and should have say as to where it goes.
    By your (sharing is caring) perspective, I should be able to go into any professional office and request all of their sales data in the interest of ``creating a more competitive playing field``.
    I should be able to walk into a TV station and demand copies of their news footage for free so I can repackage onto youtube and collect ``support me`` contributions. When the employees of the station are let go due to lack of finances, I am sure you will have a warm meal ready for them.
    You are the hypocrites. Competition is good but fair competition is better. This information came at a price.
    I am often asked, by a buyer, ``what did they pay for the house 6 years ago and answer, politely, that it does not matter a bit as the market price is today`s price.
    This type of info will only serve to invade a seller`s privacy and likely put downward pressure on the offer price. Open market means open market.
    As for competition, 16 years as a full time realtor and I have never had to charge 5%. The competition is and has been there but some of you are just too stupid to realize it.
  • Hank B | 01 May 2016, 06:44 PM Agree 0
  • Global Viewpoints | 01 May 2016, 08:55 PM Agree 0
    We are mostly western centered here, but perhaps just as a fun distraction consider how real estate functions in some another geograpy:

    Japan: There is no MLS like system. As likely real estate was traded before MLS, all listings are exclusive listings to the respective brokerage. Because of the lack of MLS, the barrier of entry to become a real estate brokerage is almost insurmountable. Most areas (with exceptions) are handled by a handful of local brokerages, with many of them holding most of their sales as inventory. A scenario could be that you wanted to sell your house, you would pick one of a few local brokerages, they may very likely simply offer you a price for your home and buy it from you as there may not be a ready buyer (or there is, but the brokerage wants to make commissions closer to 10 to 15% or more). Without a MLS system any buyer needs to actually come to or call that specific brokerage. (In other words you can not say I want to move to a different prefecture and ask your agent to look up houses there. You need to pick a prefecture, go there and find a local broker and ask them how much a house is there, or read the newspaper for house ads.)

    Perhaps we take for granted that we have MLS here. It's not a universal system, many places do not have MLS in the world. Somewhere like Japan, they would first need to MAKE MLS, before they could even consider sharing information.

    That's just the system in one of the most advanced Asian countries. Next time we can talk about what China or Korea's real estate sales system looks like.
  • Global Viewpoints | 01 May 2016, 09:09 PM Agree 0
    Just to clarify my post a bit. There IS a system available for inter-brokerage posting of information in Japan(REINS), but this is at the brokerages option (and not the norm as posting on MLS here is). There IS also a statutory commission rate of 3% 60,000 yen per agent IF a buyer and seller are directly contracting, but many many transactions are sold from inventory and thus skirts around the commission rules.
  • T | 11 May 2016, 10:58 AM Agree 0
    If the public wants the information then they should pay for it! The public can pay to pull a title on their neighbors house or pay the thousands of dollars Realtors have spent over the years to develop such an extensive database. Marketing companies aren't being forced to give away their data for free, why should Realtors? Build your own database!

    There are plenty of people who have things they'd rather do than sell their own house and prefer that an expert take care of it for them. Those of you that want to sell your house yourself and don't want to pay a Realtor to do it for you are free to do so, but don't expect Realtors to do all the work for you and not get paid! And, those Realtors that think they should get paid to do nothing and just sell data so clients can do everything themselves shouldn't be calling themselves Realtors!

    Sold prices are not considered public information until title is transferred, so my question is who is going to monitor that if this is allowed?
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